So last weekend I went camping with Blake and some of our friends up in Star Valley. It was SO fun! At night, the sky was like a painting. I have never seen anything like it! It was incredible. We swam in the reservoir, talked around camp fires, had dinner with some natives. It was an awesome weekend! Hopefully some pictures to come soon...
Also this past week I have been moving room in the house. Upstairs to downstairs. Let's just say it has been an overwhelming and daunting task, but now it is almost complete! Just a few more boxes to unpack and some finishing touches and it will be done-and just in time for school! :-)
Anyway, I hope everyone is having a fantastic week and doing incredible things.
Until next time,
Cameron
Thursday, August 19, 2010
Monday, August 16, 2010
Full Facebook Conversation with Link to Original Article
This is the entire facebook conversation-beginning to end (at least to my posting which is most current at this current time). I have included the link to the article in case you would like to read what started this whole conversation in the first place. This is probably the longest blog that I have ever posted. I apologize. Again some of the things that Nick has posted have made me feel extremely upset. I don't fully understand how God can differ this much from person to person. It breaks my heart. I seriously cried when I read his responses.
Jennifer Richmond “If government tolerates discrimination against anyone for any reason, it becomes an excuse for the public to do exactly the same thing.”
~Jerry Sanders, Republican Mayor of San Diego
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/08/09/margaret-hoover-prop-gay-rights-marriage-conservatives-civil-rights/#commenting
As a conservative Republican representing the next generation of attitudes towards gays and lesbians, I encouraged the readers of FoxNews.com last January to take a careful look at the arguments and evidence in the Prop 8 trial, Perry v. Schwarzenegger. The case was presented by a constitutional co...
Nick Richmond Ms. Hoover can call herself a conservative all she wants. She isn't. Conservatives whether Democrat or Republican advocate for the status quo. She clearly is advocating change.
Gay Marriage isn't a social issue and even less so one of equali...ty. It's a moral issue. The strength of any nation is found in its FAMILIES. To undermine the natural family is to increase the social problems that exist in Our Nation not improve them.See More
Lacey H. Gay marriage is a human rights issue. Issues of human rights should not be put to vote, otherwise women still wouldn't be allowed to vote and interracial marriage would still be illegal. The majority can't tell the minority what is right an...d what is wrong, that's why we are better as a country.
Are you saying that gay people can't be members of a family? Or a strong family? Undermining a "natural family" would be having a single mother, being raised by your grandparents, or any number of other ways straight people are currently messing up the "natural" family.
Families don't make nations strong. In fact, the weakest countries in the world have the narrowest ideas of what makes a family. Dad goes to work, mom stays home and makes babies, everyone starves to death. What makes our nation strong is our forefathers, their ideas on equality, and our constitution. "All men are created equal"
You and I are allowed to marry, they are not. That's not equal.
Jennifer Richmond @Nick: Are you saying that "Our Nation" does not belong to gay men and women? That America was founded purely for straight people? The minute the government granted benefits to married couples, gay marriage became a social issue. You can't... exclusively allow rights to one set of people while excluding another. If you can't allow gays the right to be married, you may as well take away rights for women, black people, and all other minorities. Of course, you probably wouldn't be bothered by that considering you are a white male and would still be able to get everything you want.
I know more so called "natural" families that are creating social problems than I do your so called "un-natural" families. If having two parents is the ideal family, whose to say two women or two men can't provide a stable loving home and still raise their children with strong moral values? In fact, I believe their values would be even better than your "natural family". The first one coming to mind being acceptance for all people regardless of conditions. See More
Nick Richmond Jenn I am saying that when the majority becomes disenfranchised by the minority the strength of our nation as a whole is weakened. Now I realize that horrible crimes have been perpetuated by hate groups. I do not advocate such behavior and ...I am saddened that the gay rights community has been given so much power because of the senseless idiots who perpetuate those crimes.
God created men and women equal. I have no issue with the right to vote for women. Heaven knows I've met plenty of women much smarter than I am. God created the races equal. Our forefathers (Richmond's) to the best of my knowledge were abolitionists who were against slavery. My respects to them. When they abolished slavery and got rid of the Jim Crowe laws of the South a great blight on our country's honor was removed. I have no problem with minorities coming to America and working out a fortune for themselves so long as they do it legally.
That same God who created all men equal also said "for this cause shall a man leave his mother and father and they two shall be one flesh". The cause is marriage. Between one man and one woman. You ask who is to say that two women or two men can't provide a stable loving home. To the best of my knowledge no one has. That point is irrelevant. The issue is about morality not capacity remember we said God created all men equal. Why is it an issue of morality then and not one of equality? Morality is a system of values that determines what is right and wrong. What two people do in the privacy of their own homes is not an equality issue it is a moral issue.
You say that gay marriage became an equality issue when government started giving benefits to families. So where do we draw the line. Is it ok for someone to kill another cause government gives a few select members of law enforcement that responsibility? I think not. No one will ever say that just because government instituted the death penalty that the common citizen should be allowed the privilege of killing who they will. The notion is rediculous. Of course if you insist we can always just take away those benefits from hard working bread winners and let their children grow up less dependent on the government dime. I would support that. After all it would reduce my tax burden.
As for your natural families that are creating problems. I would argue the lack of a father in the home is what is perpetuating those problems. But that is a topic for another time.
I'm sorry to say this little sister you are the wrong side of this argument. Whether you want to see it or not. See More
Blake Hoopes Nick, I would like to apologize at the onset of this comment for it will be rather lengthy. I would first like to say is that I CANNOT believe that you have the audacity to express to your sister, an incredibly intelligent, caring, kind, lo...ving woman, that you feel that her opinion is inferior to yours. It’s utterly preposterous that you assume that it is she and not you to be on the wrong side of the issue. The next generation of people will look back at strong people like your sister with amazement that she was strong enough to stand up to the rest of the world and look into the face of adversity and cry out to the world that injustice is intolerable! On the other hand, the next generation will look back at bigots like you with embarrassment and shame. It’s just like any other social issue of yesteryear. I look at the elders in my extended family and find it appalling that they still feel a shred of racism or sexism. People of Illinois and Missouri look back at their ancestors with shame for the way they treated the Mormons. One day, your posterity will look back at you and shake their heads.
Your opinion that this is a moral issue is a skewed view of the situation. Who’s to say which moral code is best to govern people by? To quote Judge Walker himself, “Moral disapproval alone is an improper basis on which to deny rights to gay men and lesbians. The evidence shows conclusively that Proposition 8 enacts, without reason, a private moral view that same-sex couples are inferior to opposite-sex couples.”
Again, I ask, who decides which moral code to govern people by? After all, homosexual relationships and acts have been admired as well as condemned throughout recorded history, depending on the form they took and the culture in which they occurred. Many historical figures, including Socrates, Lord Byron, Edward II, Shakespeare, Leonardo Da Vinci, Abraham Lincoln, and Hadrian, have had terms such as gay or bisexual applied to them. Ancient Greek writings describe individuals exhibiting exclusive homosexuality. In ancient Africa, Women in Lesotho engaged in socially sanctioned "long term, relationships" called motsoalle. Male Azande warriors in the northern Congo routinely took on male lovers, who helped with household tasks and participated in sex with their husbands. The practice had died out by the early 20th century, after Europeans had gained control of African countries. The first recorded homosexual couple in history is commonly regarded as Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum, an Egyptian male couple, who lived around the 2400 BCE. The couple is portrayed in a nose-kissing position, the most intimate pose in Egyptian art, surrounded by what appear to be their heirs. Homosexual individuals were also common among ancient civilizations in Latin America, such as the Aztecs, Mayans, Quechuas, Moches, Zapotecs, and the Tupinambá of Brazil.
Your argument that so called ‘natural families’ are superior is appallingly ridiculous! Clearly children are completely incapable of developing without a mother and a father. We should petition to have the state take custody of all children being reared in single-parent homes. No single mother or single father should have the right to raise a child alone! It’s not about their capability of parenting, it’s about the children and these children have a right to a mother and a father right? The results of scientific studies suggest that lesbian mothers' and gay fathers' parenting skills may be superior to those of matched heterosexual couples. For instance, it's been reported by researchers that homosexual couples' parenting awareness skills were stronger than those of heterosexual couples. This was attributed to greater parenting awareness among homosexual non-biological parents than among heterosexual biological fathers. One study reported more favorable patterns of parent-child interaction among homosexuals as compared to heterosexual parents. A recent study of 256 lesbian and gay parent families found that, very few lesbian and gay parents reported any use of physical punishment (such as spanking) as a disciplinary technique; instead, they were likely to report use of positive techniques such as reasoning. Certainly, research has found no reasons to believe lesbian mothers or gay fathers to be unfit parents. On the contrary, results of research suggest that lesbian and gay parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive home environments for children. Other research shows that lesbian and gay parents are more likely to be financially stable prior to making the decision to become parents.
The fact of the matter is that marriage is a religious ceremony. Our country was founded upon a separation of church and state. Why then should a religious based moral opinion be suitable to condemn an entire group of tax-paying citizens. Additionally, there are religious organizations who do provide marriage ceremonies to same-sex couples. Why is there freedom to practice their religion as they see fit being overlooked? Marriage does have original roots as a religious institution; however, the minute our Government began providing benefits to people who engage in this ceremonious union, the issue was immediately modified into a civil right. As tax-paying citizens, Gay Americans deserve the same rights and protections to enter into a consensual relationship with another adult of their choosing the same as anyone else.See More
Nick Richmond Blake the real question is why should the religious majority be stripped of their right to worship God by respecting his commandments as he laid them down? After all he is the only one whose opinion on morality is correct.
Your study data has and will continue to be disputed by right thinking members of all branches of social science.
Sorry Blake I hate to break it to you but you too are on the wrong side of this argument. If you would take a few minutes to pray to God our Heavenly Father he will confirm to you the idea that Marriage is meant to be between a man and a woman. Of course you have to be willing to believe one that he will answer and that you will conform your life to that answer.
Natosha Black Well I can see that bigotry is still alive and well. Nick your version of what you think is "right and moral" is your opinion and I respect that, but who are you to tell the rest if the world what is actually correct? Certainly not you or a...nyone that walks the face of this earth. If you are so religious than why are you judging and condeming people for their freedom of life? Doesn't "god" specifically state: "Thou shalt not judge"...So what makes you think that your exempt from that rule? I think its time for people to stop "assuming" and "creating" these bigoted and outrageous views of who aand what they think "god" was getting at, because no one knows and will never know until our time comes. Oh yeah...And it makes you look like an incompetent moron with no actual idea of your own but what "the normal society" think you should think.See More
Nick Richmond Natosha you are the third person to ask who I am. Aside from being Jennifer's brother and consequently one who is very concerned about her happiness I am a child of God. But of course you don't have to believe me. By all means don't ask me ask God. Its too easy. Yes you too can know for yourself not in some distant future but today. All you have to do is kneel down and ask. If that makes me a bigot so be it. Happy praying !!:o)
Blake Hoopes Nick, you don’t know anything about me. Let me give you a little background, not that you care to read it. I was born and raised within a very actively Mormon family. Sometime around age 9 I began noticing that I was different from most boy...s and by 15 I discovered the word for that difference was ‘gay’. I HATED myself for it. I attempted in vain to end my own life. I knelt down and prayed to God to heal me, but nothing changed. I was seeking help through my bishop as well as LDS Family Services. Finally at age 17 my parents entered me into a treatment facility. Through the intensive therapy I experienced for the five months I was there, I was able to find a small shred of love for myself, but I still wasn’t entirely happy and the feelings of attraction toward men was still strong and there were no feelings of attraction toward women. One day I was on my knees praying for change when a thought occurred to me that I was praying for the wrong thing. I began asking to just feel better. Then an even more strange thought came to mind, my entire life, I’d been allowing other people -be it my parents and family or my bishops and church leaders, all the way up to the First Presidency- to interpret God’s will for my life. At that moment, I knew the real question I should be asking: “Father in heaven, is it wrong for me to seek a marriage with another man?” The answer I received was an overwhelming peace and calm like I had never experienced before. It was almost as if I heard a voice in my head saying, “Blake, of course it’s not wrong for you. I created you just the way you ought to be! You’re not alone. You NEED to seek a loving marriage with a good young man worthy enough to have you. I want nothing more than your happiness. You should seek a committed relationship with another man.”
What I’m trying to say is that you’re right, kneeling down and praying was the right thing to do. Perhaps when you have knelt down, assuming of course that you followed your own advice to do so, you merely asked the wrong questions. In all honesty, you and I can go back and forth debating this without any resolution. Clearly there is nothing anyone can say to change your opinion and I know that there is nothing you can say to change my opinion or take away the experience I had. What I can say is that the twisted version of God you have created in your mind is very different from the God I’ve experienced. After I leave this life, if by some insanely nightmarish horror you are right, and God is a chauvinistic, racist, homophobic, hateful, judgmental white man sitting on a throne, rather than peaceful, loving and accepting, the way I know to be true, I’ll be grateful to be damned to hell, because surely burning for an eternity would be better than being forced to serve a master with such ugly qualities.
Cameron Nichols Nick, I also apologize for my lengthy comment…
I don't know you or what you have been through in your life and I can respect differences. But to come out and blatantly tell people that they are wrong and that their own spiritual experiences ...don't mean anything because they don't match yours is not Christ like. My experiences were very much like Blake’s. I was raised in the LDS church. I am a firm believer in God. I am also a gay man. I have prayed over the “issues” and have received my unmistakable revelation from God that I am making the right choices in my life. That is fine if your own personal revelation is different than mine, but don’t tell me that my revelation is not true, inferior to yours, and doesn’t mean anything. Don’t tell me to pray harder for the “right” answer. I have already received it regarding these topics. But above all, DO NOT insult MY relationship with God. Do not insult these people’s personal beliefs (whether they are similar to or different than yours). These people that you are commenting back to are good people. They live good lives. Do good things. It doesn’t matter that you don’t agree with them on a spiritual level (or any level for that matter). The fact is, whatever they do is between them and God. God knows why people do the things they do. We as imperfect beings do not.
It seems like your objective here is to convert people. The only true way to bring people to Christ is live by example. Not try and force your beliefs on other people. What you are doing is not sharing the gospel. In fact, this is what turns people away-The intolerance, the negativity, the lack of acceptance, love, and support. I know active members of the LDS faith whose morals, views, and beliefs are very different than yours. I know families who accept their children and want to see them happy no matter what they believe in (including gay marriage!). This is all so much bigger than us. I honestly believe that we were put on this earth to be tested. But it’s not the test that you think. It’s a test of acceptance and love. To gain the ability to accept differences. To love unconditionally no matter what the circumstances.
And as for your sister Jen-she is one of the kindest most caring people I have ever met. You are not the only person who cares about Jen’s wellbeing and happiness. All these people commenting care very deeply for her. You being her brother should want for her happiness. Not what you think (or “know”) will make her happy, but what she for herself wants and will make her happy.
Not only will I pray for more revelation, protection, loved ones, government leaders, and express gratitude; but I will also pray for open mindedness, love for all, acceptance for all, and equality for all. Our nation was founded because of inequalities. There was oppression. There was injustice. It was built on separation of church and state. To allow everyone to believe, worship, and work to build a better life.
Jennifer Richmond “If government tolerates discrimination against anyone for any reason, it becomes an excuse for the public to do exactly the same thing.”
~Jerry Sanders, Republican Mayor of San Diego
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/08/09/margaret-hoover-prop-gay-rights-marriage-conservatives-civil-rights/#commenting
As a conservative Republican representing the next generation of attitudes towards gays and lesbians, I encouraged the readers of FoxNews.com last January to take a careful look at the arguments and evidence in the Prop 8 trial, Perry v. Schwarzenegger. The case was presented by a constitutional co...
Nick Richmond Ms. Hoover can call herself a conservative all she wants. She isn't. Conservatives whether Democrat or Republican advocate for the status quo. She clearly is advocating change.
Gay Marriage isn't a social issue and even less so one of equali...ty. It's a moral issue. The strength of any nation is found in its FAMILIES. To undermine the natural family is to increase the social problems that exist in Our Nation not improve them.See More
Lacey H. Gay marriage is a human rights issue. Issues of human rights should not be put to vote, otherwise women still wouldn't be allowed to vote and interracial marriage would still be illegal. The majority can't tell the minority what is right an...d what is wrong, that's why we are better as a country.
Are you saying that gay people can't be members of a family? Or a strong family? Undermining a "natural family" would be having a single mother, being raised by your grandparents, or any number of other ways straight people are currently messing up the "natural" family.
Families don't make nations strong. In fact, the weakest countries in the world have the narrowest ideas of what makes a family. Dad goes to work, mom stays home and makes babies, everyone starves to death. What makes our nation strong is our forefathers, their ideas on equality, and our constitution. "All men are created equal"
You and I are allowed to marry, they are not. That's not equal.
Jennifer Richmond @Nick: Are you saying that "Our Nation" does not belong to gay men and women? That America was founded purely for straight people? The minute the government granted benefits to married couples, gay marriage became a social issue. You can't... exclusively allow rights to one set of people while excluding another. If you can't allow gays the right to be married, you may as well take away rights for women, black people, and all other minorities. Of course, you probably wouldn't be bothered by that considering you are a white male and would still be able to get everything you want.
I know more so called "natural" families that are creating social problems than I do your so called "un-natural" families. If having two parents is the ideal family, whose to say two women or two men can't provide a stable loving home and still raise their children with strong moral values? In fact, I believe their values would be even better than your "natural family". The first one coming to mind being acceptance for all people regardless of conditions. See More
Nick Richmond Jenn I am saying that when the majority becomes disenfranchised by the minority the strength of our nation as a whole is weakened. Now I realize that horrible crimes have been perpetuated by hate groups. I do not advocate such behavior and ...I am saddened that the gay rights community has been given so much power because of the senseless idiots who perpetuate those crimes.
God created men and women equal. I have no issue with the right to vote for women. Heaven knows I've met plenty of women much smarter than I am. God created the races equal. Our forefathers (Richmond's) to the best of my knowledge were abolitionists who were against slavery. My respects to them. When they abolished slavery and got rid of the Jim Crowe laws of the South a great blight on our country's honor was removed. I have no problem with minorities coming to America and working out a fortune for themselves so long as they do it legally.
That same God who created all men equal also said "for this cause shall a man leave his mother and father and they two shall be one flesh". The cause is marriage. Between one man and one woman. You ask who is to say that two women or two men can't provide a stable loving home. To the best of my knowledge no one has. That point is irrelevant. The issue is about morality not capacity remember we said God created all men equal. Why is it an issue of morality then and not one of equality? Morality is a system of values that determines what is right and wrong. What two people do in the privacy of their own homes is not an equality issue it is a moral issue.
You say that gay marriage became an equality issue when government started giving benefits to families. So where do we draw the line. Is it ok for someone to kill another cause government gives a few select members of law enforcement that responsibility? I think not. No one will ever say that just because government instituted the death penalty that the common citizen should be allowed the privilege of killing who they will. The notion is rediculous. Of course if you insist we can always just take away those benefits from hard working bread winners and let their children grow up less dependent on the government dime. I would support that. After all it would reduce my tax burden.
As for your natural families that are creating problems. I would argue the lack of a father in the home is what is perpetuating those problems. But that is a topic for another time.
I'm sorry to say this little sister you are the wrong side of this argument. Whether you want to see it or not. See More
Blake Hoopes Nick, I would like to apologize at the onset of this comment for it will be rather lengthy. I would first like to say is that I CANNOT believe that you have the audacity to express to your sister, an incredibly intelligent, caring, kind, lo...ving woman, that you feel that her opinion is inferior to yours. It’s utterly preposterous that you assume that it is she and not you to be on the wrong side of the issue. The next generation of people will look back at strong people like your sister with amazement that she was strong enough to stand up to the rest of the world and look into the face of adversity and cry out to the world that injustice is intolerable! On the other hand, the next generation will look back at bigots like you with embarrassment and shame. It’s just like any other social issue of yesteryear. I look at the elders in my extended family and find it appalling that they still feel a shred of racism or sexism. People of Illinois and Missouri look back at their ancestors with shame for the way they treated the Mormons. One day, your posterity will look back at you and shake their heads.
Your opinion that this is a moral issue is a skewed view of the situation. Who’s to say which moral code is best to govern people by? To quote Judge Walker himself, “Moral disapproval alone is an improper basis on which to deny rights to gay men and lesbians. The evidence shows conclusively that Proposition 8 enacts, without reason, a private moral view that same-sex couples are inferior to opposite-sex couples.”
Again, I ask, who decides which moral code to govern people by? After all, homosexual relationships and acts have been admired as well as condemned throughout recorded history, depending on the form they took and the culture in which they occurred. Many historical figures, including Socrates, Lord Byron, Edward II, Shakespeare, Leonardo Da Vinci, Abraham Lincoln, and Hadrian, have had terms such as gay or bisexual applied to them. Ancient Greek writings describe individuals exhibiting exclusive homosexuality. In ancient Africa, Women in Lesotho engaged in socially sanctioned "long term, relationships" called motsoalle. Male Azande warriors in the northern Congo routinely took on male lovers, who helped with household tasks and participated in sex with their husbands. The practice had died out by the early 20th century, after Europeans had gained control of African countries. The first recorded homosexual couple in history is commonly regarded as Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum, an Egyptian male couple, who lived around the 2400 BCE. The couple is portrayed in a nose-kissing position, the most intimate pose in Egyptian art, surrounded by what appear to be their heirs. Homosexual individuals were also common among ancient civilizations in Latin America, such as the Aztecs, Mayans, Quechuas, Moches, Zapotecs, and the Tupinambá of Brazil.
Your argument that so called ‘natural families’ are superior is appallingly ridiculous! Clearly children are completely incapable of developing without a mother and a father. We should petition to have the state take custody of all children being reared in single-parent homes. No single mother or single father should have the right to raise a child alone! It’s not about their capability of parenting, it’s about the children and these children have a right to a mother and a father right? The results of scientific studies suggest that lesbian mothers' and gay fathers' parenting skills may be superior to those of matched heterosexual couples. For instance, it's been reported by researchers that homosexual couples' parenting awareness skills were stronger than those of heterosexual couples. This was attributed to greater parenting awareness among homosexual non-biological parents than among heterosexual biological fathers. One study reported more favorable patterns of parent-child interaction among homosexuals as compared to heterosexual parents. A recent study of 256 lesbian and gay parent families found that, very few lesbian and gay parents reported any use of physical punishment (such as spanking) as a disciplinary technique; instead, they were likely to report use of positive techniques such as reasoning. Certainly, research has found no reasons to believe lesbian mothers or gay fathers to be unfit parents. On the contrary, results of research suggest that lesbian and gay parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive home environments for children. Other research shows that lesbian and gay parents are more likely to be financially stable prior to making the decision to become parents.
The fact of the matter is that marriage is a religious ceremony. Our country was founded upon a separation of church and state. Why then should a religious based moral opinion be suitable to condemn an entire group of tax-paying citizens. Additionally, there are religious organizations who do provide marriage ceremonies to same-sex couples. Why is there freedom to practice their religion as they see fit being overlooked? Marriage does have original roots as a religious institution; however, the minute our Government began providing benefits to people who engage in this ceremonious union, the issue was immediately modified into a civil right. As tax-paying citizens, Gay Americans deserve the same rights and protections to enter into a consensual relationship with another adult of their choosing the same as anyone else.See More
Nick Richmond Blake the real question is why should the religious majority be stripped of their right to worship God by respecting his commandments as he laid them down? After all he is the only one whose opinion on morality is correct.
Your study data has and will continue to be disputed by right thinking members of all branches of social science.
Sorry Blake I hate to break it to you but you too are on the wrong side of this argument. If you would take a few minutes to pray to God our Heavenly Father he will confirm to you the idea that Marriage is meant to be between a man and a woman. Of course you have to be willing to believe one that he will answer and that you will conform your life to that answer.
Natosha Black Well I can see that bigotry is still alive and well. Nick your version of what you think is "right and moral" is your opinion and I respect that, but who are you to tell the rest if the world what is actually correct? Certainly not you or a...nyone that walks the face of this earth. If you are so religious than why are you judging and condeming people for their freedom of life? Doesn't "god" specifically state: "Thou shalt not judge"...So what makes you think that your exempt from that rule? I think its time for people to stop "assuming" and "creating" these bigoted and outrageous views of who aand what they think "god" was getting at, because no one knows and will never know until our time comes. Oh yeah...And it makes you look like an incompetent moron with no actual idea of your own but what "the normal society" think you should think.See More
Nick Richmond Natosha you are the third person to ask who I am. Aside from being Jennifer's brother and consequently one who is very concerned about her happiness I am a child of God. But of course you don't have to believe me. By all means don't ask me ask God. Its too easy. Yes you too can know for yourself not in some distant future but today. All you have to do is kneel down and ask. If that makes me a bigot so be it. Happy praying !!:o)
Blake Hoopes Nick, you don’t know anything about me. Let me give you a little background, not that you care to read it. I was born and raised within a very actively Mormon family. Sometime around age 9 I began noticing that I was different from most boy...s and by 15 I discovered the word for that difference was ‘gay’. I HATED myself for it. I attempted in vain to end my own life. I knelt down and prayed to God to heal me, but nothing changed. I was seeking help through my bishop as well as LDS Family Services. Finally at age 17 my parents entered me into a treatment facility. Through the intensive therapy I experienced for the five months I was there, I was able to find a small shred of love for myself, but I still wasn’t entirely happy and the feelings of attraction toward men was still strong and there were no feelings of attraction toward women. One day I was on my knees praying for change when a thought occurred to me that I was praying for the wrong thing. I began asking to just feel better. Then an even more strange thought came to mind, my entire life, I’d been allowing other people -be it my parents and family or my bishops and church leaders, all the way up to the First Presidency- to interpret God’s will for my life. At that moment, I knew the real question I should be asking: “Father in heaven, is it wrong for me to seek a marriage with another man?” The answer I received was an overwhelming peace and calm like I had never experienced before. It was almost as if I heard a voice in my head saying, “Blake, of course it’s not wrong for you. I created you just the way you ought to be! You’re not alone. You NEED to seek a loving marriage with a good young man worthy enough to have you. I want nothing more than your happiness. You should seek a committed relationship with another man.”
What I’m trying to say is that you’re right, kneeling down and praying was the right thing to do. Perhaps when you have knelt down, assuming of course that you followed your own advice to do so, you merely asked the wrong questions. In all honesty, you and I can go back and forth debating this without any resolution. Clearly there is nothing anyone can say to change your opinion and I know that there is nothing you can say to change my opinion or take away the experience I had. What I can say is that the twisted version of God you have created in your mind is very different from the God I’ve experienced. After I leave this life, if by some insanely nightmarish horror you are right, and God is a chauvinistic, racist, homophobic, hateful, judgmental white man sitting on a throne, rather than peaceful, loving and accepting, the way I know to be true, I’ll be grateful to be damned to hell, because surely burning for an eternity would be better than being forced to serve a master with such ugly qualities.
Cameron Nichols Nick, I also apologize for my lengthy comment…
I don't know you or what you have been through in your life and I can respect differences. But to come out and blatantly tell people that they are wrong and that their own spiritual experiences ...don't mean anything because they don't match yours is not Christ like. My experiences were very much like Blake’s. I was raised in the LDS church. I am a firm believer in God. I am also a gay man. I have prayed over the “issues” and have received my unmistakable revelation from God that I am making the right choices in my life. That is fine if your own personal revelation is different than mine, but don’t tell me that my revelation is not true, inferior to yours, and doesn’t mean anything. Don’t tell me to pray harder for the “right” answer. I have already received it regarding these topics. But above all, DO NOT insult MY relationship with God. Do not insult these people’s personal beliefs (whether they are similar to or different than yours). These people that you are commenting back to are good people. They live good lives. Do good things. It doesn’t matter that you don’t agree with them on a spiritual level (or any level for that matter). The fact is, whatever they do is between them and God. God knows why people do the things they do. We as imperfect beings do not.
It seems like your objective here is to convert people. The only true way to bring people to Christ is live by example. Not try and force your beliefs on other people. What you are doing is not sharing the gospel. In fact, this is what turns people away-The intolerance, the negativity, the lack of acceptance, love, and support. I know active members of the LDS faith whose morals, views, and beliefs are very different than yours. I know families who accept their children and want to see them happy no matter what they believe in (including gay marriage!). This is all so much bigger than us. I honestly believe that we were put on this earth to be tested. But it’s not the test that you think. It’s a test of acceptance and love. To gain the ability to accept differences. To love unconditionally no matter what the circumstances.
And as for your sister Jen-she is one of the kindest most caring people I have ever met. You are not the only person who cares about Jen’s wellbeing and happiness. All these people commenting care very deeply for her. You being her brother should want for her happiness. Not what you think (or “know”) will make her happy, but what she for herself wants and will make her happy.
Not only will I pray for more revelation, protection, loved ones, government leaders, and express gratitude; but I will also pray for open mindedness, love for all, acceptance for all, and equality for all. Our nation was founded because of inequalities. There was oppression. There was injustice. It was built on separation of church and state. To allow everyone to believe, worship, and work to build a better life.
My Facebook Response
This is a comment I posted on Facebook. It is in response to my friends brother who disagrees with gay marriage and has views that I strongly disagree with. His post that I am responding to offended me and hurt me deeply. I will post the entire Facebook conversation in my next blog posting in case anyone wants to know more of what is going on and what my facebook response is talking about.
Nick, I also apologize for my lengthy comment…
I don't know you or what you have been through in your life and I can respect differences. But to come out and blatantly tell people that they are wrong and that their own spiritual experiences don't mean anything because they don't match yours is not Christ like. My experiences were very much like Blake’s. I was raised in the LDS church. I am a firm believer in God. I am also a gay man. I have prayed over the “issues” and have received my unmistakable revelation from God that I am making the right choices in my life. That is fine if your own personal revelation is different than mine, but don’t tell me that my revelation is not true, inferior to yours, and doesn’t mean anything. Don’t tell me to pray harder for the “right” answer. I have already received it regarding these topics. But above all, DO NOT insult MY relationship with God. Do not insult these people’s personal beliefs (whether they are similar to or different than yours). These people that you are commenting back to are good people. They live good lives. Do good things. It doesn’t matter that you don’t agree with them on a spiritual level (or any level for that matter). The fact is, whatever they do is between them and God. God knows why people do the things they do. We as imperfect beings do not.
It seems like your objective here is to convert people. The only true way to bring people to Christ is live by example. Not try and force your beliefs on other people. What you are doing is not sharing the gospel. In fact, this is what turns people away-The intolerance, the negativity, the lack of acceptance, love, and support. I know active members of the LDS faith whose morals, views, and beliefs are very different than yours. I know families who accept their children and want to see them happy no matter what they believe in (including gay marriage!). This is all so much bigger than us. I honestly believe that we were put on this earth to be tested. But it’s not the test that you think. It’s a test of acceptance and love. To gain the ability to accept differences. To love unconditionally no matter what the circumstances.
And as for your sister Jen-she is one of the kindest most caring people I have ever met. You are not the only person who cares about Jen’s well being and happiness. All these people commenting care very deeply for her. You being her brother should want for her happiness. Not what you think (or “know”) will make her happy, but what she for herself wants and will make her happy.
Not only will I pray for more revelation, protection, loved ones, government leaders, and express gratitude; but I will also pray for open mindedness, love for all, acceptance for all, and equality for all. Our nation was founded because of inequalities. There was oppression. There was injustice. It was built on separation of church and state. To allow everyone to believe, worship, and work to build a better life.
Nick, I also apologize for my lengthy comment…
I don't know you or what you have been through in your life and I can respect differences. But to come out and blatantly tell people that they are wrong and that their own spiritual experiences don't mean anything because they don't match yours is not Christ like. My experiences were very much like Blake’s. I was raised in the LDS church. I am a firm believer in God. I am also a gay man. I have prayed over the “issues” and have received my unmistakable revelation from God that I am making the right choices in my life. That is fine if your own personal revelation is different than mine, but don’t tell me that my revelation is not true, inferior to yours, and doesn’t mean anything. Don’t tell me to pray harder for the “right” answer. I have already received it regarding these topics. But above all, DO NOT insult MY relationship with God. Do not insult these people’s personal beliefs (whether they are similar to or different than yours). These people that you are commenting back to are good people. They live good lives. Do good things. It doesn’t matter that you don’t agree with them on a spiritual level (or any level for that matter). The fact is, whatever they do is between them and God. God knows why people do the things they do. We as imperfect beings do not.
It seems like your objective here is to convert people. The only true way to bring people to Christ is live by example. Not try and force your beliefs on other people. What you are doing is not sharing the gospel. In fact, this is what turns people away-The intolerance, the negativity, the lack of acceptance, love, and support. I know active members of the LDS faith whose morals, views, and beliefs are very different than yours. I know families who accept their children and want to see them happy no matter what they believe in (including gay marriage!). This is all so much bigger than us. I honestly believe that we were put on this earth to be tested. But it’s not the test that you think. It’s a test of acceptance and love. To gain the ability to accept differences. To love unconditionally no matter what the circumstances.
And as for your sister Jen-she is one of the kindest most caring people I have ever met. You are not the only person who cares about Jen’s well being and happiness. All these people commenting care very deeply for her. You being her brother should want for her happiness. Not what you think (or “know”) will make her happy, but what she for herself wants and will make her happy.
Not only will I pray for more revelation, protection, loved ones, government leaders, and express gratitude; but I will also pray for open mindedness, love for all, acceptance for all, and equality for all. Our nation was founded because of inequalities. There was oppression. There was injustice. It was built on separation of church and state. To allow everyone to believe, worship, and work to build a better life.
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